Leslie Caribou ([info]caribou) wrote,
@ 2007-08-30 18:49:00
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Entry tags:fuck the patriarchy, nerdy fangirl

Why have there been no great female comic books fans? Well, actually...
There is an argument that seems to be very popular in the world of comics bloggers when they are disputing feminist comic book fans. It's not a new one, and it comes up so frequently that Karen and Betty have already created a space for it on the comics feminist Bingo card. (If you don't get the Bingo card, please go here for Karen's explanation) That argument is basically these two:

If you don't like it, shut up and write your own.

And:
Sexism is a convention of the genre!

Now, telling feminists to take off their shoes and leave them at the door when they enter the realm of work by Important White Men is typical of anti-feminists. But that's not really the point here. The point is, these people act like women in comics, as fans, characters and creators, is this new phenomenon. It's not. It's happened before. There is room in this space for me. I have a history here.

For those of you who have read the work of Trina Robbins, which you SHOULD be doing, this won't be anything new to you. So I apologize to you for being redundant. But to those of you who are unfamiliar with Trina's awesomeness and still believe that comics aren't for women, this is for you. As all of us Americans know, lots of men had to fight in WWII. This left many trades devoid of its employees, and women stepped in to replace men in the workplace. Guess what one of those trades was? Yup, drawing comics! Freelance female cartoonists stepped in to replace the male cartoonists who were in the military. Until recently, there had never been that many female creators working in superhero comics.

And there were female superheroes too! LOTS of them!! Sure there was Wonder Woman, but she was most certainly not the first female superhero. Female superheroes wore masks, they could turn invisible, they even flew airplanes and fought Nazis, just like the men did. Right fucking ON, that's what I'm talking about!

There were also...you guessed it...FANGIRLS! They were gobbling up comics, just like the fanboys. We know this because there were paper dolls for female characters in the backs of comics, and advertisements where female comic book characters would endorse women's clothing brands. One comics publisher sold 12 month subscriptions for a female superhero named Miss America. You could buy a year's worth of Miss America's adventures for one dollar. So many dollar bills were mailed in for Miss America comics that the publishers were literally emptying out file cabinets in their office to make room for the dollar bills. And, we know that there were cuttings for paper dolls in the back of Miss America's books. Clearly, those dollar bills didn't just belong to fanboys. I'll bet that a lot of those belonged to fangirls, just like me.

Last fall, I was working on a paper about women in comics. I e-mailed Trina Robbins and told her what I was working on, and she wrote back with, "Well, since you're a local, feel free to call me any time!" I was sitting on my couch with my cell phone when Trina was explaining this history of comics to me, and I can't really describe what I was feeling. As a female fan in a space that typically excludes women, I've had a very complicated relationship with comics. I've walked away from comics before because I couldn't stand how the women were portrayed. But this was a new revelation. I belonged. Women have a history here. There is room for us. Comics ARE for us too.

And when I think about those fangirls during WWII, I think about what we have in common. Did they run through fields imagining that they were flying, just like I did when I was little? Did they tie blankets around their shoulders as a makeshift cape, and insist upon wearing them in public despite their parent's efforts to get them to leave said cape at home? When they missed their loved ones who were away at war, did reading comics help ease the pain, just like the death of a comic book character helped me cope with the loss of my grandmother? And when their fathers came home in a casket, did they wish that Miss America or Miss Victory had been there to help them? Did they wish that a superheroine had been fighting alongside their father, to protect him from the enemy soldier who had killed him, as I have wished for a superhero to be real so many times?

We shouldn't be asking if comics are for women. That's stupid. There is nothing about having a pair of X chromosomes that makes you dislike comics. What we should be asking is: What happened since then? Where did the cartoonists, the fans, the characters go? Did women suddenly become uninterested, or did the developing comics subculture exclude women?

During the second wave feminist movement when there was a feminist movement among art historians, Linda Nochlin asked a similar question in her famous essay, Why Have There Been No Great Female Artists? Nochlin pointed out that that the reason that there had never been a female Michelangelo had nothing to do with biology. During the Renaissance, a woman wouldn't have had access to the training that Michelangelo had access to. A woman wouldn't have been offered the commissions that Michelangelo had been offered. I mean, come ON! It really wasn't until the 20th century that it became acceptable for female art students to draw from the nude. How could you possibly hope to sculpt a David if you're not allowed to look at nude models?

Nochlin was a co-curator of several landmark exhibitions, including the first comprehensive exhibit of women artists from 1550 to 1900. I wonder if when Nochlin was tracking down works by Artimesia Gentileschi, Sofonisba Anguissola, Lavinia Fontana and many others, if she felt what I did. I have a place here. I have an identity here.

So you see, it's not all about the men. Women have a place here too. It has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with environmental factors. Saying, "But men's dollars make up the majority of comic book sales!" Is stupid. If you exclude women and minorities and do everything in your power to keep them out, of COURSE those are the only dollars you're going to get. There is no "Chicken or the egg?" question here, we know what came first.

I owe a lot to feminist art historians like Linda Nochlin. They still have a long way to go, but they've brought feminist discourse into the academic realm in a huge way. And when I walked into the LACMA in 2005 at the first landmark exhibition of comics artists, and didn't see ONE female artist in the show, I had to laugh to myself. Of course. The institution is slow to learn. Fortunately, thanks to Nochlin and Robbins, I've come in well armed. They haven't heard the last of me.

ETA: A commenter pointed out that I haven't named any of the WWII-era female cartoonists. This is a good point. So here's a few you can check out:
Nell Brinkley
Dale Messick, who created a strip about a globe-trotting reporter named Brenda Starr
Grace Drayton
Miss America, one of the Golden Age superheroines, was drawn by cartoonist Pauline Loth:
Miss America

If you want to read more, check out the work of Trina Robbins:
The Great Women Superheroes
THe Great Women Cartoonists




(37 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]brown_betty
2007-08-31 03:31 pm UTC (link)
Reading this made my heart swell.

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 02:26 pm UTC (link)
Aww <3

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[info]spoggly
2007-09-02 02:03 am UTC (link)
*wild applause*

*more applause*

*repeated recs. to roommate*

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 02:26 pm UTC (link)
Thanks! =)

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[info]zenaletam
2008-07-16 02:44 am UTC (link)
" He retired to the sound of wild applause. There were more incredible stories. One man spoke of leaving his body at night and of preventing a murder in a nearby room.

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-02 04:57 am UTC (link)
Hear Hear!

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 03:54 pm UTC (link)
I do!

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[info]lost_angelwings
2007-09-02 07:16 am UTC (link)
*cheers* :D

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 03:54 pm UTC (link)
Thank you! =)

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[info]meritahut
2007-09-02 11:10 am UTC (link)
Perfectly put. Thank you for naming Artemisia Gentileschi et. al., and some (only some, alas) of the reasons there have been so few great female [fill in profession], or so few acknowledged.

Think you could add in a handful of names of some of those WWII-era comics creators as well?

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 02:27 pm UTC (link)
Excellent point! This post has been edited to add the names of a few WWII-era female cartoonists.

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[info]meritahut
2007-09-02 02:59 pm UTC (link)
Terrific. I'll be committing those names to memory :)

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[info]thekamisama
2007-09-02 01:21 pm UTC (link)
With all this recent examination of women in fandom, I am suprised no one has done an article on Melissa Page. She was one of the most prolific letterhacks in the 80's. She was certainly in the pantheon of the big names from lettercol fandom along with the likes of T.M. Maple, Malcolm Bourne, and Uncle Elvis.

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 02:28 pm UTC (link)
I'm a horrible person who doesn't follow letterers too much *shame*
But maybe you should write an article about her? I'd love to hear more!

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[info]karenhealey
2007-09-02 03:02 pm UTC (link)
DEE-lightful!

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[info]caribou
2007-09-02 03:54 pm UTC (link)
Thanks!
Also, that LJ icon is hilarious!

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[info]fangirljen
2007-09-03 09:34 am UTC (link)
I've wondered why there are no recent great Science Fiction fans. Like, you're frequent to hear about the male Science Fiction fan who has entered into the workspace of his previous love--Joss Whedon, David Hewlett, David Tennant, to name a few. Why don't you hear about the fangirl who has become a famous genre actress? Oh, and something I was thinking about Trina Robbins, how many people actually have heard of her, but more than that, know who she is and what she's done? While I have heard of her, I couldn't tell you exactly what she's done.

I also hate the misconception about fangirls from fanboys. Fanboys, and people associated with them, perpetuate the stereotypes. Case in point, in a recent appearance on the Craig Ferguson show, Ferguson was prompting Masi to agree with how there were more fanboys than fangirls at Comic Con. I was at Comic Con. The mix looks pretty even to me. It's not like "Where's the fangirl?!" in the crowd of men--which is what was depicted on Richard Dean Anderson's appearance on The Simpsons at Springfield's Stargate convention. Been to one of those too and those definitely have more women than men in attendance.

But I'm getting off topic here. What I've observed in Science Fiction fandom is that there is a majority of female fans who take part in the fannish works, while male fans go for the more professional avenues. No fanfic, fanart, fanvids for them. I know this isn't always the case, but there does appear to be more female fans producing fannish works than male fans. I'd love to see a break down of this.

I was tackling this question a year ago when I took part in an interview for Fangirl Rampage. You might also be interested in checking out the [info]fangirlproject. I'm so excited about this. :D I hope that it will help with getting people to notice modern female fans.

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[info]caribou
2007-09-04 01:12 am UTC (link)
You're totally right about female science fiction fans. And again, something where women have contributed a LOT as creators, and yet female fans are largely alienated in the developing subculture. Despite the fact that a LOT of science fiction fans are women.

I've noticed that trend with fan fiction in general...it's mostly women who write fanfic and participate in online fandom. I think a lot of it has to do with creating a safe space where they can talk about what they want to talk about, as fanboys do have a habit of crying "Unfair!" when something isn't specifically designed for them.

And really? You don't think a lot of people know what Trina does? I can tell you! She's a cartoonist (has even worked on Wonder Woman!) and a feminist comics historian. Her books on women in comics have been nothing short of groundbreaking and she's currently working on her comic, Go Girl!

Fangirl Project looks neat! I should totally send in snapshots when I get done sewing my Supergirl costume.

Thanks for stopping by!

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[info]zhinxy
2007-09-08 05:04 am UTC (link)
From what I can tell, women who write or draw popular, unauthorized tales of their favorite characters - or thinly disguised versions thereof, are writing fanfic and/or creating fanart. Men who do the same are frequently creating brilliant Underground Comics, or Illegal Art, or Satire, etc. Not always, mind you, but more often than women doing the same thing. ;)

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[info]caribou
2007-09-10 02:18 am UTC (link)
Ooh, also a good point!
And "fanfic" has some pretty negative connotations to it too. Underground comics, illegal art, satire, or "speculative fiction" do not.

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[info]zhinxy
2007-09-10 10:15 pm UTC (link)
Women's art is frequently relegated to the level of "hobby or craft."

The best example of this, now that I think of it (Forgive me if you find this OT), is fiber arts. Even when beautiful old tapestries are hung in the finest art museums, it's not usually underscored that they were frequently designed and made by women. Ditto quilts.

And, whatever feminists may say (often with good reason) about the fashion industry, I would be the last person to argue that Coco Chanel, for example, was not a great artist.

Anyway, my point is, too often it's: Men have a devotion to their art! Women have hobbies! ;)

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[info]caribou
2007-09-10 10:51 pm UTC (link)
Also true. There have very recently been some landmark exhibitions featuring fashion design and quilts, like the Quilts of Gee's Bend exhibition and the Vivenne Westwood retrospective. But I have a feeling that it'll be a long time before they get the same academic attention that male-dominated artistic mediums do.

Which is also kind of sad, because that's where women's stories of the past are. We don't get the female perspective in history books, we get the male perspective. The closest we can get to the every day female perspective are in the things they made: Quilts, ceramics, knitting, crocheting, sewing, etc.

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[info]zhinxy
2007-09-11 12:34 am UTC (link)
You know, maybe the fact that so much art by women has UTILITY turns some of the more eggheaded critics off. ;)

heheh

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[info]cofax7
2007-09-10 08:46 pm UTC (link)
You're totally right about female science fiction fans. And again, something where women have contributed a LOT as creators, and yet female fans are largely alienated in the developing subculture. Despite the fact that a LOT of science fiction fans are women.

There's been a fair amount of discussion of this issue lately, by way of Henry Jenkins, actually, in response to some commentary by women fan-academics about their experiences at a conference last spring. If you're interested, check out Jenkins' blog, or you can follow a series of really interesting (although occasionally impenetrably jargony) discussions between male and female academics at [info]fandebate, which is mirroring the discussions on Jenkins' blog.

Thanks for this entry, btw; I hadn't heard of this history, and it's very encouraging and enlightening.

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[info]hannahasoxe
2008-07-16 02:25 pm UTC (link)
(Science-fiction fans then dismissed mainstream literature as a whole bunch of thumbsucking, but that's a whole 'nother argument.

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[info]mechanicaljewel
2007-09-03 11:51 pm UTC (link)
If I may be so bold as to add to your post:

The first female superhero was not Wonder Woman, but Miss Fury, created by a woman, June Tarpe Mills. "Miss Fury" was a newspaper strip, but its comic book reprints sold millions.

Incidentally, the first trade paperback of "Miss Fury" just came out a few weeks ago, and Trina Robbins wrote the intro!

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[info]caribou
2007-09-04 12:49 am UTC (link)
oooh, I didn't know that the TPB for Miss Fury came out! I need to get my grubby fangirl hands on that ASAP.

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[info]mechanicaljewel
2007-09-04 02:46 am UTC (link)
Well, this is funny.

I got my copy at my LCS, but now that I stroll over to Amazon, it does not appear to exist. Googling the ISBN (15668503631) reveals nothing. I tried the publisher's website (http://www.pureimagination.info), which seems to be incomplete even beyond the lack of "Miss Fury" info. Further investigation of my book's copyright page reveals more startling info:

"MISS FURY is tm, (c) and published by Pure Imagination Publishing, 516 State Street, Brooklyn, NY, 11217. 718-403-9312. "Tarpe Mills and Miss Fury" (c) Trina Robbins, 2007. The essay first appeared in Comic Art Magazine, V.1 #1, Fall, 2002. All material is believed to be public domain, and each panel has been slightly altered to fingerprint this version. Unauthorized use constitutes theft of services and copyright infringement."

Um, paging Sketchy McSketchigton?

The public domain claim is setting off the most alarms right now, because while, yeah, a lot of Golden Age superheroes fell into the public domain, the fact is that there was a Miss Fury collection published in the '70s, while Mills was still alive; I would imagine she would have renewed the copyright then, especially as she contributed new covers to the project. And, while IANAL, I don't believe that anything copyrighted in the '70s can have fallen into the public domain just yet.

Could we possibly ask Trina what she knows? I'll ask my LCS if they remember how they got it (probably Previews, but who knows). I don't expect that they're making any substantial money off of Miss Fury, but they also publish early Kirby and Eisner stuff too, and well, it just bothers me that they publish something they only believe to be in the public domain. I mean, hell, Wikipedia has stricter standards than that.

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[info]caribou
2007-09-04 03:01 am UTC (link)
Oh wow, that is way sketchy.
Maybe contact the publisher fist and inquire about the public domain thing first?

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[info]fenrisulfr
2007-09-10 01:22 am UTC (link)
Just wanted to add another "hear, hear!" to that. :D

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[info]caribou
2007-09-10 02:18 am UTC (link)
Thank you!
And hi!!

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[info]polgarawolf
2007-09-14 12:23 am UTC (link)
*Cheers wildly, sniffles a little, and goes and hugs nearest comics (Star Wars!) to self*

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[info]dbrottman
2007-09-14 02:05 pm UTC (link)
Very informative post. Thanks!

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[info]ladymordecai
2007-12-26 04:23 am UTC (link)
Thanks for writing this. I recenty read Trina Robbins's "From Girls to Grrls" and it was something of a revelation. This is pretty much what I was feeling while I read it.

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Funny quote
(Anonymous)
2008-05-14 01:49 am UTC (link)

"But don't you worry, its for a cause -- feeding global corporations' paws."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ebloggy.com/chaunceyhensleyzy

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Hello
(Anonymous)
2008-08-24 03:48 am UTC (link)
I'm new here, just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

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(Deleted post)
Re: Hello
[info]caribou
2008-08-29 02:30 am UTC (link)
Deletedseen,

Please be mindful of the fact that not only are you making a generalized statement about men and women on the livejournal of someone who has identified themselves as a feminist, but you're also being disrespectful by ignoring one of the primary arguments of this livejournal entry. I suggest you start researching the works that I have referred to here.

Thanks,
Leslie Caribou

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(37 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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